Tony DiNozzo: Competent Agent, Frat Boy or something else?

[webbgirl]

After watching the past couple of seasons of NCIS in rapid succession, I had this post forming on Tony's character and his growth, or lack thereof.  I kept debating on whether to actually post it or not, then I saw a couple of spoilers for upcoming episodes In the upcoming episode Knockout (6.18) we're promised more info on Tony's background.  The writers (or producers can't remember which) also promised that we'll get lots of angsty info in the season finale on Tony. I'm personally hoping for some background that shows us why he reverts to the frat boy mentality and womanizer when things get too 'real' or uncomfortable for him.
Anyway, my post is more about Tony as a good agent than it is about other stuff.  Through all the seasons of NCIS we get glimpses of Tony being a really good investigator and having great instincts.  Unfortunately, these moments tend to be eclipsed by his goofing around or his attempts to show off for Gibbs. 

I'm going to lose my Gibbs/DiNozzo slasher card for this, but I think that him being around Gibbs is the problem.  I also think this is somewhat intentional on the writers parts. When we see Tony in charge of a situation (rather than following Gibbs' lead) we get to see his analytical skills and leadership capabilities. 

This is even evidenced in "Bait" when Tony has to take over when Gibbs ends up in the classroom with the kid. We also see it in "In The Zone" when Tony and Nikki (sp?) go to Baghdad.  Once they're in Baghdad, Tony was the epitome of a seasoned investigator.

Back to "Bait" though.  One of the things this episode highlighted for me was Tony's willingness to stand up to Jenny when he professionally disagreed with her.  He stood up to her in a way I don't think we've ever seen him stand up to Gibbs.  I don't think it was out of a lack of respect, but it felt more like him claiming his place as 'Senior Field Agent'.  It demonstrated it clearer than all of the times he's spouted the words to Ziva and McGee.

Question is, why has Tony never been able to stand up to Gibbs the way he stood up to Jenny?  When Gibbs returned to NCIS and essentially brushed Tony back into his place, Tony bowed back into his spot and deferred to Gibbs.  I know that they showed the awkwardness of the transition, but I felt like it was mostly played for laughs.  Though, I found the part of him turning down his own team for the sake of watching out for Gibbs heartbreaking.  Again though, he was able to be honest with Jenny about it.  I think if he'd been dealing with Gibbs in a similar situation he would have just played it off and made a joke.

My fondest desire for this season is that we finally get to really see Tony coming into his own, even when he's around Gibbs.  And that we get to see some honest acknowledgment that he's not just the comic relief.  I think it would be a natural outgrowth of what happened with Jeanne and Jenny.  Situations like that are either going to break someone or make them stronger in the long run.  I'd love to watch the process of the latter with Tony.

Any thoughts or comments from everyone else on this?

Comments

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of it had to do with Kate being there. Once she left and Ziva came on the show, Tony's behavior changed. Kate was like a sibling to Tony and she could stand up to Gibbs in a way other agents haven't or can't. I can't see Ziva looking Gibbs straight in the eye and questioning him or demanding that he do something the way Kate did. She could give Tony back exactly what he gave her when it came to annoying each other. Ziva can't do that with the same style or amusement.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I'm really sorry we lost Kate. I liked her a great deal more than Ziva. Mostly, though, I liked the way she integrated with the team more than Ziva.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

The more time the passes the more I miss Kate. She bugged me at times because she would give Tony as good as she got, but then she would whine a bit. It was all very sibling rivalry with the two of them.

With Ziva, well I have a whole diatribe on her that I won't go into in this comment. She's just never connected with me and there are some of her actions that make me downright disgusted with her as a character.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I'm very disgusted with her character. She *could* have been good, but they can't seem to decide if they're writing a strong, independent woman, or a mooning teenager.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

It's the mooning teenager part that makes me want to punch the TV screen these days with her.

Starting mid-Season 4, then all of Season 5 I just couldn't deal with that. The whole incident of her following Tony into the men's room because he won't 'discuss his feelings' with her and then she demanded that *he* apologize. WTF? Partner or no, it's none of her damn business if he wants to talk to her or not. Plus, I don't remember her being all that chatty after she shot the serial killer.

GAH! She's like a lovesick puppy.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

YES! That whole apology thing was absurd. I really *really* wish Tony had told her to shove it. And then tossed her out of the men's room. That's unacceptable behavior (both parts of it).

I loved the elevator conversation in Cloak, where she was talking about her "feelings" and he was pissed off and talking about the job. That pretty much sums up what I think of their relationship at this point. She's all lovesick mooning and he's focused on, y'know, *work* and doesn't notice.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

Kate was more "with the program" than Ziva is.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

Oh wow, you and I have completely opposite views of Tony and Kate vs. Ziva and Kate! I mean, polar opposites!

I believe Tony pushed Kate's buttons because he could and she would always get all upset and insult him in a totally uncalled for manner - personal and not in proportion to the way he was teasing her - or yell for Gibbs. I hated when she constantly poked him in the ribs with her elbow, especially in Twilight when he had just gotten over the plague and had just been blown up.

Ziva takes what Tony gives her, twists it and throws it back in a way that can discombobulate him. She's very sexual and not as oppressed as Kate acted, and "shock" Tony instead of the other way around.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

She's also a lot more vicious. Ziva tends to find any weakness she can and she pushes and pushes and pushes and never seems to know when it's too much. Kate went too far sometimes, but not nearly as often as Ziva does.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

That's the key, I think. It's the viciousness. Kate and Tony's one-upsmanship was all in fun. With Ziva, it can get downright vicious. Kate and Tony saw it as a game, Ziva and Tony view it as a competition.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

OMG, again, we're opposite! I thought Kate was much more vicious. She always insulted Tony's intelligence and skill and she would hit below the belt, like McGee did in L&W when he brought up Jeanne.

Tony was serious and trying to talk, when he fell for the ATF (or was it DEA?) lady and Kate just taunted him with his encounter with the man/woman... AND she would never let that go.

I seriously could not stand Kate towards the end.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

That was the only time I thought Kate went too far. Ziva's more likely to go too far at least once an episode.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

Kate could really hit below the belt, but I think it's more in the attitude between the two characters where the viciousness can be seen. You could occasionally see the kid gloves being worn when Tony and Kate went nose to nose and that a lot of it was in good fun. With Tony and Ziva, I don't see that same playfulness.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

Okay, I'm having trouble navigating this journal, I don't get it, so I'll reply again.

I still think Kate was more vicious and personal, but I do remember something from Shalom that bugged the hell out of me. Ziva is telling the director thanks to Gibbs she was cleared and Tony says, "and me", to which Ziva replies, "Yes, but mostly Gibbs." What was the purpose of that? Tony risked his job to try to find her and was going to contact Gibbs. The whole team, including Jimmy, was going out on a limb for her. She could have been much more gracious about that. GRRRRR

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

We've been so chatty on this subject, LJ is collapsing the conversations. :) I keep having to click on the EXPAND option at the end of all the posts to see what we've been talking about.

Kate could be very vicious and very personal. Ziva too. I think the biggest difference is the attitude of the two characters. Kate was trained to kill but Ziva was a trained killer. Ziva has more of an edge IMHO. It's an almost cruel edge, not a playful one. It's almost like Kate would be laughing WITH Tony but Ziva is laughing AT Tony.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

This.

Also, Kate wasn't, by nature, overly manipulative. She tended to deal with people in a straight forward manner. Ziva, on the other hand (whether due to her nature or her training), seems to always feel the need to manipulate. Where Tony will find things like "Elf Lord" to hold over McGee, Ziva goes for far more personal weak spots and attacks.

Consider "Probie". Yes, Kate would have likely teased Tony just as much, and probably in some of the same ways about the sperm bank thing, Ziva took it that extra step farther. When Tony was wondering, and honestly worried, about one of his potential offspring having a medical condition, Ziva laughed at him. Kate would have probably worried with him or offered another possibility to ease his mind. "Maybe one of them just want to meet you." Now, she probably would have had something to say about that, but I doubt she would have laughed at him.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

To go a little further, Ziva doesn't really see what's beyond her nose, so to speak. In her line of work, this is a necessary tool. Once she is convinced of something, it's difficult to make her see any other option. I have no doubt that's saved her life a lot of times. Kate was the type of investigator who could see various options and paths to a crime. This was necessary in Kate's line of work.

Now you take these two characters who had been at their jobs for years, and that attitude and behavior has to filter into the everyday lives. Ziva became more succinct, direct and to the point. Kate had the luxury of being allowed to be more conversational and see a much bigger picture.

Take these attitudes and behaviors and move them into the personal relationships they have with other people. Kate had the time and ability to go with a lighter touch when it came to practical jokes whereas Ziva goes for the jugular. Kate might go for the hurt but Ziva would go for the pain.

Then there's Tony who has to deal with both of them. ;)

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Yep. It's not OOC for Ziva to be cruel. It just makes her far less likable. Kate was just far more proportional in her comebacks/attacks.

Tony deserves better. :-)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

I'm not a shipper at all, but I prefer the relationship he had with Paula.

I will never forgive the writers for killing her off. Mysogonistic boys club - I can't even spell it, I'm so pissed.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Oh, my OTP is Gibbs/Tony. :-):-) I don't see him with any of the women on the show at all.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

I really liked Tony and Paula together, I loved him and Jeanne together. He loved her.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

I don't think he did love her. I think he got used to being with her, he became comfortable, and since he hadn't been in a relationship with one woman for so long that he's mistaking routine with love. Jeanne, as portrayed onscreen, is the type of woman he would normally run from - needy, manipulative - but he had to stay with her, so he got used to her ways.

There's an interesting conversation on TWoP where a person suggests that Tony needs approval and reassurance, etc., and if he were on an undercover op where he got something like that, say, with a father-figure who treated him like a son, encouraging and praising him, we might never get him back from the op.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

I think he did get used to being with her, but given how he quit flirting with other females and, at the end, was wondering about marriage and kids (shown in the episode following the one where Jeanne left), I think he didn't realize he'd fallen in love with her until he had already fell. I think he's tried to convince himself that it was all part of the op, but I think there's more to it than even he knows.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I think he knew he'd fallen in love with her when he showed up at her door crying. I don't think that was him in his DiNardo persona. I think *that* was Tony.

Now, would he have ever gotten to that point with her if he hadn't been on the op? Doubtful. I think there were a number of incidents like the whole "my ex is stalking me but it's none of your business" thing that would have sent him packing rather than trying to get her to work through it. Not to mention the house thing.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

He took Paula's advice to heart. He knew that he could be killed at any moment, just like Gibbs said. He didn't want to leave this world without telling Jeanne how he felt, IMHO. He wasn't just crying because of Paula, I don't think.