Tony DiNozzo: Competent Agent, Frat Boy or something else?

[webbgirl]

After watching the past couple of seasons of NCIS in rapid succession, I had this post forming on Tony's character and his growth, or lack thereof.  I kept debating on whether to actually post it or not, then I saw a couple of spoilers for upcoming episodes In the upcoming episode Knockout (6.18) we're promised more info on Tony's background.  The writers (or producers can't remember which) also promised that we'll get lots of angsty info in the season finale on Tony. I'm personally hoping for some background that shows us why he reverts to the frat boy mentality and womanizer when things get too 'real' or uncomfortable for him.
Anyway, my post is more about Tony as a good agent than it is about other stuff.  Through all the seasons of NCIS we get glimpses of Tony being a really good investigator and having great instincts.  Unfortunately, these moments tend to be eclipsed by his goofing around or his attempts to show off for Gibbs. 

I'm going to lose my Gibbs/DiNozzo slasher card for this, but I think that him being around Gibbs is the problem.  I also think this is somewhat intentional on the writers parts. When we see Tony in charge of a situation (rather than following Gibbs' lead) we get to see his analytical skills and leadership capabilities. 

This is even evidenced in "Bait" when Tony has to take over when Gibbs ends up in the classroom with the kid. We also see it in "In The Zone" when Tony and Nikki (sp?) go to Baghdad.  Once they're in Baghdad, Tony was the epitome of a seasoned investigator.

Back to "Bait" though.  One of the things this episode highlighted for me was Tony's willingness to stand up to Jenny when he professionally disagreed with her.  He stood up to her in a way I don't think we've ever seen him stand up to Gibbs.  I don't think it was out of a lack of respect, but it felt more like him claiming his place as 'Senior Field Agent'.  It demonstrated it clearer than all of the times he's spouted the words to Ziva and McGee.

Question is, why has Tony never been able to stand up to Gibbs the way he stood up to Jenny?  When Gibbs returned to NCIS and essentially brushed Tony back into his place, Tony bowed back into his spot and deferred to Gibbs.  I know that they showed the awkwardness of the transition, but I felt like it was mostly played for laughs.  Though, I found the part of him turning down his own team for the sake of watching out for Gibbs heartbreaking.  Again though, he was able to be honest with Jenny about it.  I think if he'd been dealing with Gibbs in a similar situation he would have just played it off and made a joke.

My fondest desire for this season is that we finally get to really see Tony coming into his own, even when he's around Gibbs.  And that we get to see some honest acknowledgment that he's not just the comic relief.  I think it would be a natural outgrowth of what happened with Jeanne and Jenny.  Situations like that are either going to break someone or make them stronger in the long run.  I'd love to watch the process of the latter with Tony.

Any thoughts or comments from everyone else on this?

Comments

[tejas.livejournal.com]

She's also a lot more vicious. Ziva tends to find any weakness she can and she pushes and pushes and pushes and never seems to know when it's too much. Kate went too far sometimes, but not nearly as often as Ziva does.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

That's the key, I think. It's the viciousness. Kate and Tony's one-upsmanship was all in fun. With Ziva, it can get downright vicious. Kate and Tony saw it as a game, Ziva and Tony view it as a competition.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

OMG, again, we're opposite! I thought Kate was much more vicious. She always insulted Tony's intelligence and skill and she would hit below the belt, like McGee did in L&W when he brought up Jeanne.

Tony was serious and trying to talk, when he fell for the ATF (or was it DEA?) lady and Kate just taunted him with his encounter with the man/woman... AND she would never let that go.

I seriously could not stand Kate towards the end.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

That was the only time I thought Kate went too far. Ziva's more likely to go too far at least once an episode.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

Kate could really hit below the belt, but I think it's more in the attitude between the two characters where the viciousness can be seen. You could occasionally see the kid gloves being worn when Tony and Kate went nose to nose and that a lot of it was in good fun. With Tony and Ziva, I don't see that same playfulness.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

Okay, I'm having trouble navigating this journal, I don't get it, so I'll reply again.

I still think Kate was more vicious and personal, but I do remember something from Shalom that bugged the hell out of me. Ziva is telling the director thanks to Gibbs she was cleared and Tony says, "and me", to which Ziva replies, "Yes, but mostly Gibbs." What was the purpose of that? Tony risked his job to try to find her and was going to contact Gibbs. The whole team, including Jimmy, was going out on a limb for her. She could have been much more gracious about that. GRRRRR

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

We've been so chatty on this subject, LJ is collapsing the conversations. :) I keep having to click on the EXPAND option at the end of all the posts to see what we've been talking about.

Kate could be very vicious and very personal. Ziva too. I think the biggest difference is the attitude of the two characters. Kate was trained to kill but Ziva was a trained killer. Ziva has more of an edge IMHO. It's an almost cruel edge, not a playful one. It's almost like Kate would be laughing WITH Tony but Ziva is laughing AT Tony.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

This.

Also, Kate wasn't, by nature, overly manipulative. She tended to deal with people in a straight forward manner. Ziva, on the other hand (whether due to her nature or her training), seems to always feel the need to manipulate. Where Tony will find things like "Elf Lord" to hold over McGee, Ziva goes for far more personal weak spots and attacks.

Consider "Probie". Yes, Kate would have likely teased Tony just as much, and probably in some of the same ways about the sperm bank thing, Ziva took it that extra step farther. When Tony was wondering, and honestly worried, about one of his potential offspring having a medical condition, Ziva laughed at him. Kate would have probably worried with him or offered another possibility to ease his mind. "Maybe one of them just want to meet you." Now, she probably would have had something to say about that, but I doubt she would have laughed at him.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

To go a little further, Ziva doesn't really see what's beyond her nose, so to speak. In her line of work, this is a necessary tool. Once she is convinced of something, it's difficult to make her see any other option. I have no doubt that's saved her life a lot of times. Kate was the type of investigator who could see various options and paths to a crime. This was necessary in Kate's line of work.

Now you take these two characters who had been at their jobs for years, and that attitude and behavior has to filter into the everyday lives. Ziva became more succinct, direct and to the point. Kate had the luxury of being allowed to be more conversational and see a much bigger picture.

Take these attitudes and behaviors and move them into the personal relationships they have with other people. Kate had the time and ability to go with a lighter touch when it came to practical jokes whereas Ziva goes for the jugular. Kate might go for the hurt but Ziva would go for the pain.

Then there's Tony who has to deal with both of them. ;)

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Yep. It's not OOC for Ziva to be cruel. It just makes her far less likable. Kate was just far more proportional in her comebacks/attacks.

Tony deserves better. :-)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

I'm not a shipper at all, but I prefer the relationship he had with Paula.

I will never forgive the writers for killing her off. Mysogonistic boys club - I can't even spell it, I'm so pissed.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Oh, my OTP is Gibbs/Tony. :-):-) I don't see him with any of the women on the show at all.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

I really liked Tony and Paula together, I loved him and Jeanne together. He loved her.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

I don't think he did love her. I think he got used to being with her, he became comfortable, and since he hadn't been in a relationship with one woman for so long that he's mistaking routine with love. Jeanne, as portrayed onscreen, is the type of woman he would normally run from - needy, manipulative - but he had to stay with her, so he got used to her ways.

There's an interesting conversation on TWoP where a person suggests that Tony needs approval and reassurance, etc., and if he were on an undercover op where he got something like that, say, with a father-figure who treated him like a son, encouraging and praising him, we might never get him back from the op.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

I think he did get used to being with her, but given how he quit flirting with other females and, at the end, was wondering about marriage and kids (shown in the episode following the one where Jeanne left), I think he didn't realize he'd fallen in love with her until he had already fell. I think he's tried to convince himself that it was all part of the op, but I think there's more to it than even he knows.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I think he knew he'd fallen in love with her when he showed up at her door crying. I don't think that was him in his DiNardo persona. I think *that* was Tony.

Now, would he have ever gotten to that point with her if he hadn't been on the op? Doubtful. I think there were a number of incidents like the whole "my ex is stalking me but it's none of your business" thing that would have sent him packing rather than trying to get her to work through it. Not to mention the house thing.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

He took Paula's advice to heart. He knew that he could be killed at any moment, just like Gibbs said. He didn't want to leave this world without telling Jeanne how he felt, IMHO. He wasn't just crying because of Paula, I don't think.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

No. Paula was just part of it. It was Paula, and his guilt for not saving her, and Kate, and anyone else he's ever lost before, and the future he wanted, but knew he probably could never have with Jeanne - but he had to try and he had to say it and it cost him dearly.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

I'm not sure about that. I think he was extremely vulnerable and emotional after losing Paula, a woman who he had a "thing" with and who became a friend. I believe he "thought" he loved Jeanne, but he didn't really. (Okay, I hated Jeanne, but I swear that's not why I believe this).

Now, your last paragraphs is dead on. If he was just dating the woman and didn't have to stick around no matter what, her behavior with her ex and the whole panic-stricken phone call because her place was going condo IN A MONTH... then going from sharing an apartment to BUYING A HOUSE... well, Tony would've been gone in a heartbeat.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Thinking he loved Jeanne and actually loving Jeanne is pretty much the same thing. Until such time as *he* decides he really didn't love her (and remember, in my perfect world, he and Gibbs have been gettin' it on since pre-series ;-) he did, actually, love her. It's one of those things that only the person involved can truly quantify. I haven't seen anything in Tony's words or behavior to lead me to believe he didn't love her. He may not any more. Internal Affairs may have put paid to that, though I don't think so. I think it just made a bigger mess. I think his reaction to McGee's taunt the other night wouldn't have been so strong had he not loved her.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

And what if Jeanne comes back?

::plot bunnies are hopping::

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure he'd ever take her back. The fact that she ran off with the expectation that if he loved her he'd ditch his life and follow her probably threw up a permanent block to any relationship they might have been able to salvage. That was petty, at best. Childish and manipulative at worst. *She* would need to do some serious groveling and I don't think she can.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

I wonder what would have happened if the op had gone on much longer.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

There's a nice bunny for someone.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

Tony told Jeanne's old boyfriend that he couldn't live a lie.

I'm willing to bet that if the op had gone on much longer, Tony would have told her who he was. Granted, he might have had to come up with a story like, "I was undercover when I met you, and I couldn't break cover" without mentioning dear old dad.

The question is what would Jeanne have done? :: pets the plot bunny ::