Thoughts on McProbie this Season on NCIS

[webbgirl]

Plenty of folks have been discussing the changes in McGee's attitude this season. Thought I'd put my 2 cents in, especially after re-watching some episodes from Season 5.



So a lot of people have noticed that Tim has not only become more 'confident' in the past season or two (no more stuttering) he's also become a bit of a dick to Tony as well. In some ways I see this as a natural outgrowth of their sibling relationship. Tony has always treated Tim as a little brother that he had to 'toughen up'. The hazing, comments and pranks were really the only way that Tony knew how to do that. I mean his model for sibling relationships really would have been formed in the Frat house in college given his only child status growing up.

In the confines of this relationship dynamic, I expect Tim to eventually stand up to Tony and tell him enough or even to retaliate. One example of a proportional response is in "Love and War" where he lets Tony squirm and feel bad about the whole computer date thing. I get leaving him on the hook for awhile with that. Where he crosses the line is when he brings up the relationship with Jeanne. This was a low and out of bounds blow. Family fights can get downright nasty among siblings, but there are certain lines that you just don't cross.

I don't think this shift is completely new though. One of the conversations that really struck me from Season 5 was in "Family" when they're first at the crime scene.

McGee: The more I think about it, the more I can't believe we fell for it. Tony with a girlfriend?
Ziva: I believe he had real feelings for her McGee.
McGee: I don't doubt that. You see what she looks like?
Ziva: Sounds like you wish you had the assignment.
McGee: Yeah. I don't know why the director didn't give it to me to begin with.
Ziva: *looks incredulous*

The first part of the conversation seems pretty dickish. Yes Tony is known as being a Playboy, but it seemed pretty obvious by the start of this episode that Tony was emotionally beat up over the whole thing. Plus there was the whole 'almost got blown up' bit. I tend to put this down to Tim being hurt by Tony having to lie to him for all that time. Without any follow up on that from the writers though, I'm not sure if I still feel that way.

The second part of the conversation leads me to the point that I think ties into Season 6. Tim doesn't respect the fact that Tony is actually very good at his job. Tony will always have more field experience than Tim. Just like Gibbs will always have more than Tony. Tony's methods may be unorthodox to many, but they've proved valid time and time again on cases. Tim assuming he could step into a deep undercover assignment and do it as well as Tony would be like Tony thinking he could hack into the FBI.

I think somewhere in Season 4 or 5 McGee started buying into thinking that his skills were on par or even better than Tony. Season 6 has amplified this belief with his time in the basement with his own team and having Vance be a champion of the more cerebral than physical aspects of investigation. Because of this belief, it chafes Tim a little more each time Tony gets put in charge of a case or even one aspect of a case. This leads to the passive aggressive (and not so 'passive' aggressive) behavior in "Bounce" when Tony is truly in charge. If nothing else Tim should have respected Gibbs decision to put Tony in charge and gone with that. If this was the first time that Tony had been in charge, that would have been one thing. I'd expect some razzing. However it was far from it. (I'll save my whole rant on how Tim and Ziva were part of the original investigation but never once acknowledged that they had also worked on putting Renny in prison for another time.)

I think there's an underlying theme this season of what happens when trust gets shaken. We see Gibbs doubting himself and his call on Langer. We see Tony's reaction in Cloak when Gibbs doesn't bring the team in on his plan, then his own self-doubt in "Bounce". Ducky and Gibbs have a slightly dinged level of their trust in "Broken Bird" given Ducky withholding info and going off on his own. We also get the very tenuous trust between Gibbs and Vance which seems to be built on who has the most amo on the other. I think this is going to explode in a pretty big way by the end of the season.

Ultimately the core team always has each others backs. I wonder though if they're leading to something bigger with Tim and the rest of the team. Possibly a situation where one or all of them have to put their trust in him and he isn't able to deliver for whatever reason. This might be wishful thinking on my part because I think those types of situations make for the best character growth.

In conclusion, if you're looking for some closure/satisfaction on the whole Attitude!Tim thing right now? I highly recommend readining bananacosmics new fic here. It's like she read my brain before writing it. Spoilers up through "Bounce" in the fic so be warned.

Comments

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I'd like to agree with you and think the writers are going somewhere with this and doing it on purpose, but I have learned not to have faith in that sort of thing, unfortunately.

The fact Tim never once even commented that the computer evidence he provided (from the previous case in 'Bounce") was faulty makes me think there won't be any awaking for Tim

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

I have to say that that was definitely one of my biggest issues with the ep. As much as I enjoyed most of the rest of the ep that really bugged me.

I'm trying to be optimistic that they're going to go somewhere with all of this.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I liked the whole "Tony's in charge so feels the blame fits squarely on his shoulders" thing, but a mere mention that SOMEONE else screwed up would have been nice.

(Besides the whole, technophobic guy goes to prison and not only teaches himself everything he needs to know to break masively fancy encrypted codes but has access to computers that let him do that and the tremendous amount of free time necessary as well. Huh?)

Optimism. Have fun with that.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

Yes. I totally got Tony taking the responsibility on by himself because that's exactly what Gibbs would do. It just seems sucky of the others to not even mention that they were involved in the whole thing.

Yeah. On the plot-holy side. :)

Hey, I'm trying to be upbeat and not get pissy about it. Then I'll just have to gorge myself on fic over the summer after I'm disappointed. :D

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

thank god for fanfic!!

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

LMAO at your icon. I could never figure out what it was Tony said in that scene.

And yes, fanfic cures all. :D

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I'll admit to being a little distracted and not paying the amount of attention I probably should have been to what he was saying...

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

Well...yeah. It was something something 'boss'. Which I always found interesting given that he was just waking up. That could just be the slasher in me though.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

did you check the transcript?

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

No, but I'm digging for the DVD right now to listen to it again. *g*

Boss was the only part that I could ever make out.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

forcing yourself to watch it again. the things you do for your art....

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

Exactly. It's a sacrifice, but I'm totally willing to make it.

[pruehall.livejournal.com]

I was going to comment but then I got distracted by all the pretty icons...

You and donutsweeper have pretty pretty icons ;-) "Poo Boy" *snerk*

I am sure you know by now that I agree with you. Confident McGee is cool, but this cocky and arrogant McGee is such a pain in the ass.

I really hope the writers are leading somewhere with this - but I have my doubts.

I think the best thing for Tony to do is to stop covering for McGee like he did last week. If McGee is on the same level as Tony as far as being an agent - lets see what happens when he really has to face the fury of Gibbs- like Tony does.

Rant over - goes back to look at your pretty icons ;-)

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Sadly, the current spoilers available don't show anything that might resolve this. If they're going to resolve it, it's going to be done as the B story.

I still wonder if they're going to follow up on Tony covering for McGee with Gibbs.

I'm also very ticked about the season-ender, but that's another matter.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

There are still a couple of episodes that I haven't seen any spoilers on so I'm kind of hoping. It may end up being the B plot of the spin-off intro as well. (I'm trying to stay optimistic.)

What about the season ender? I think the only thing I've seen for that is that it's supposed to have some sort of angst for Tony.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

It's the first half of a two-parter - the spin-off. *sigh*

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

NCIS didn't really have anything to do with JAG after it spun off (2 JAG people showed up 1x each and NCIS never showed up on JAG again) so maybe it won't be that bad?

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Mostly, I figure it'll be almost all Legend (the name of the spin off) and little NCIS.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

Maybe, but the JAG/NCIS one was more 50/50.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

The only real JAG we got was Harm after the initial bit. Even Commander Coleman was, essentially, an NCIS character.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

I miss Faith. I wish they would have done more with her and Gibbs.

I know the spin off eps are supposed to showcase the new characters and feel of the new show, but I'm hoping that this will be more of a mix.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

It would be nice.

And yeah, I miss her, too. She was a *great* character.

Oh! Did you notice that Jessica Steen (Paula) was on Flashpoint the other night? I've only just started watching the show, but she was getting a spot on the team, so she's either going to be a new regular or at least have a spot for a few eps.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

I've seen that she's supposed to be at least a semi-regular on the show. I love Jessica Steen.

Out of all the women that Gibbs has flirted with I think I liked Faith the best. Sure she's OCD but she fit pretty well with Gibbs.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Gibbs flirted with her? When? Man, that went right past me.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

During "Hometown Hero" he flirts with her pretty subtly and a bit during "Call of Silence". It was definitely subtle...okay maybe it was my view of the subtext. :D

They did end up going to the funeral for the Marine at the end of "Hometown Hero". Not exactly date material, but this is Gibbs we're talking about.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I never did get any kind of flirting vibe from him with her. He definitely flirted with Mann (and that was very cute, too ;-), but I just didn't see it with Coleman.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

There was a lovely scene at the end of HH. I like the two of them together, but don't necessarily need to see a relationship.

I would love to see Faith Coleman again but I'm afraid the writers will kill her off.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I like the way they interact, but would prefer to see them as grudgingly respectful adversaries.

[nialla]

Steen's character was brought in because Amy Jo Johnson (Jules) had a baby in real life.

I know Steen will be around for a while, but probably not for the whole season. I think it would be cool if she got to keep the "cool pants" and transferred to another team.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I hope they do that rather than killing her off. I'd really love the chance for her to show up again. I adore Steen. :-)

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

Ah. So they're using the finale for the spin-off? That kinda sucks. I do wonder if Tony is going to be given an opportunity to leave and go with this new team and maybe that plays into the whole drama thing for him?

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Could be. He'll be offered the team lead? That could be interesting.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

I'd like to see that happen in front of the others. Plus given the description of Chris O'Donnell's character I'm hoping that they end up being more friendly than combative.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

It *could* be interesting if these agents off in LA have all these wonderful stories they've heard about what a terrific agent Tony is. :-)

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

That would be AWESOME!!

Though I suspect it would be closer to him making endless movie references. *sigh*

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Um... wonder if maybe he knows one of the team from one of the departments he's worked for over the years.

So many possibilities.

So little pay off.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

Yeah. There are some really great possiblities with this, but chances are the writers will end up playing it for laughs.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

GGGGRRRR!

[xanthelj.livejournal.com]

I really like that you've opened a discussion about this as it's been bugging me this season and reached a crescendo in the last two eps. I wish I thought the writers were going somewhere with it but I don't. I like your analysis of how Tony has toughened McGee up - but I wish we saw the logical conclusion of that and I don't know that we will. In the prison ep, Tony acknowledges that Tim has "grown a pair". However Tony is Tony and will always rag on Tim to a certain extent. At the moment Tim is responding by being downright mean. I want there to be some payback for his lack of support for Tony in "Bounce" and the appalling way he behaved towards him in SXSW. Tony didn't deserve that and tim never did explain or apologise. I'm worried that it's part of a wider "kick Tony" arc - even Gibbs has been complaining about Tony's attitude and narcissism all season.

I like your analysis of the issue of "trust" and "doubt" all season - certainly this is the first time Tony has EVER had a problem with Gibbs and called him on it. But the problem is that I don't really want that in NCIS! I don't mind if they actually explore it, but just dipping into the waters every so often is leaving the show feeling unsettled. They need to explore it, resolve it, and move on. Maybe if there was an ep where Tony and Gibbs had a heart to heart about trust and doubt and "Cloak" then that would work - the air could be cleared. Or maybe if Tony and Tim were forced to trust each other and rely on each other in an ep and Tim acknowledged that however much Tony annoys him, he's always THERE for him when it counts. Maybe someone needs to remind Tim of the events of "Probie" where the only person who cares enough to come to his place and talk him out of his funk is Tony.

But I think I need to see the theme more explicitly stated than it currently is. At the moment it's all unsettling undercurrents that are spoiling my enjoyment of the show. I want to SEE the characters actually deal with it, and then move on because ultimately, I want to believe Abby's sunny world view about them being family who watch out for each other and love each other despite the squabbling. And right now I'm not actually feeling the love. Sigh.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

I get what you mean about the unsettled feeling. I wonder how much of that comes from the writers trying to undo some of the knots they wrote themselves into in Seasons 4 and 5. The whole Grenouille storyline pretty much screwed every character over in the process.

Essentially Jenny had to die because they couldn't do anything to redeem her character at that point. Tony ends up broken, but then they couldn't figure out where to go with that so he bounces back and forth with the Clown persona every other episode. Tim grows up, but he becomes mean. I wonder how much of this season is fallout from that. Plus the fact that they had to truncate last season by several episodes because of the strike.

I too would love for this stuff to be hashed out onscreen. I want a scene with Tony and Gibbs where Tony calls Gibbs on asking for loyalty from the team, but then runs off on his own whenever he sees fit. I don't think the writers do subtle very well. Perhaps there's a story that they think they're conveying but it's leaving most of us feeling 'off'.

I realize that I may be a bit Pollyanna right now in hoping for some resolution, but I have to try and convince myself that this really is going somewhere. Otherwise it means that the writers are driving this completely awesome show into the ground...and that would suck greatly.

[xanthelj.livejournal.com]

I'd love to believe it's all going somewhere. Why has the show taken such a dark turn? The characters all used to get along fine but now there are all these tensions, particularly between Tony/Gibbs and Tony/Tim. I MOST of all want to see Tony and Gibbs have a showdown about Gibbs not trusting his team. I mean, what the hell is that all about? It's really been bugging me this season. And it would make a kickass story because when Tony gets serious he really gets serious and I'd love to see Gibbs *deal* with that and take onboard what Tony has to say.

Then there's Abby - they just don't seem to know how to write her at all these days. I agree with you about them driving the show into the ground. The fans can see the problems - so why can't they? Sigh! I'm just hoping something will resolve it but I don't think it will because I'm not even sure they're aware of it.

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

Thanks for reccing me :)

I had forgotten about that exchange in "Family", but you're right - that's an extremely rude thing to say. Tony has never pretended to be able to do the things Tim does, so why would Tim be as good as Tony at Tony's things? Gibbs keeps them around because they compliment each other, not because they're all copies of each other.

My fic says pretty well what I think of all of it, and I can only hope that there is some sort of point to the whole thing. Then again, as I said in response to someone's comments, I doubt the writers can do such a subtle, long plot. They're not known for their subtlety.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tweeter_/]

I've become addicted to "hidden object" games so I missed this post when it came out.

Late to the party, but always putting my two cents in.

I loved bananacosmic's story and agree wholeheartedly with the views stated in your post and in the comments. McGee has been bugging the heck out of me and, as I said in bc's story comments, making me not like him at all and I don't like feeling that way. If there's a fight between Tony and Tim I'll always take Tony's side.

I would like to see a situation where Tim messes up and Tony saves him and/or the situation and gets seriously injured in the process.

Mostly, I want people to see and acknowledge what a good agent Tony is.

Respect for Tony! Damn it!