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webbgirlSo, I was flipping through the channels this morning and saw an ad on VH-1. It was for a program called 'Rules for Slashers'.
My first thought? Cool...there's a VH-1 special about us. Who'da thunk?
Second thought? We have rules?
They showed two of the rules:
Rule 1: Slasher must have a theme song. Dang! Now I gotta come up with a freakin' theme song? How about The Boys are Back in Town?
Rule 2: Virgins live, Sluts die. Well that just makes no sense at all. We're slashers. If there's a virgin, he's not staying that way long. If we killed off all the sluts, we'd have no one left to slash.
Around this time they showed a shot of Jamie Lee Curtis from Friday the 13th. Ooohhh, that kinda Slasher.
I still kinda like the whole theme song idea though.
My first thought? Cool...there's a VH-1 special about us. Who'da thunk?
Second thought? We have rules?
They showed two of the rules:
Rule 1: Slasher must have a theme song. Dang! Now I gotta come up with a freakin' theme song? How about The Boys are Back in Town?
Rule 2: Virgins live, Sluts die. Well that just makes no sense at all. We're slashers. If there's a virgin, he's not staying that way long. If we killed off all the sluts, we'd have no one left to slash.
Around this time they showed a shot of Jamie Lee Curtis from Friday the 13th. Ooohhh, that kinda Slasher.
I still kinda like the whole theme song idea though.
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no subject
on 2004-01-31 06:51 pm (UTC)Theme song - Mirrorball by Sarah Mac - check
One guy is good, two are better - check
Any more rules you can think of?
I thought of some but I think this should be a joint operation.
J
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on 2004-01-31 07:03 pm (UTC)Re:
on 2004-01-31 07:15 pm (UTC)Right?
Also, it's important to watch as much of the show as possible to keep your writing in line with the characterizations.
J
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on 2004-01-31 07:24 pm (UTC)Another one is that the boys fighting on the show is a good thing sometimes. It means great make-up sex later.
no subject
on 2004-01-31 07:05 pm (UTC)Oh yeah, that would be bad- a tragedy. Just thinking about this slutocide makes me shudder!
Save all the sluts! Give them to their tough guys for a good shagging! They'll feel better afterward- and us too *nods*
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on 2004-01-31 07:10 pm (UTC)The thought is just horrid.
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on 2004-01-31 07:17 pm (UTC)I'm also wondering about the foreskin.
Hmmmmmmm.
J
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on 2004-01-31 07:22 pm (UTC)Re:
on 2004-01-31 07:29 pm (UTC)*wide eyes* Oh yeah! Foreskin *shakes head* You and your US cut males *g*
Hmm, that's a good point, I guess, one I didn't think about. I think I should read that fic you mentioned, girl, just to check if Joy talked about *that* detail. For medical knowledge, ya know?
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on 2004-01-31 07:33 pm (UTC)Re:
on 2004-01-31 07:35 pm (UTC)Re:
on 2004-01-31 10:17 pm (UTC)Re:
on 2004-02-01 04:33 am (UTC)I corrupted, oops, introduced another friend today and I did it without hesitation because I know you guys put out the good stuff.
J
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on 2004-02-01 07:43 am (UTC)Re:
on 2004-01-31 07:33 pm (UTC)J
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on 2004-02-04 05:44 pm (UTC)Am I missing out on some important aspect of male physiology or... how would he be able to tell the difference?
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on 2004-02-04 05:53 pm (UTC)And a foreskin? Oh, yeah. You'd notice.
J
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on 2004-02-04 06:24 pm (UTC)And as for the virginity, well, obviously knowledge of male anal sex isn't exactly my strong point, but I am led to understand that there aren't permanent physiological changes involved? Certainly nothing akin to the rupturing of the hymen.
(And now Ari attempts to check Minataur on the subject while in the same room as a not-very-queer friendly person-living-in-room. Watch me frantically glance over my shoulder to see if she's looking. Watch me disable "display picutres")
Okay, obviously Minataur didn't have any particularly pertanint answers, but in answer to questions about virgin!bottoms (regular, plain ol' virgins, not born-again virgins) he says:
Mostly that depends on the situation. If a guy is relaxed, not tense or afraid, and wants it to happen, it may not hurt at all. If he's nervous, or being forced, it may hurt a great deal. It might also depend on physical factors - some guys, no matter how much they may want to get fucked, are simply unable to relax enough to allow entry. Others are naturals at it, and may enjoy it tremendously even the first time.
See, psychologically, Daniel isn't a virgin. And I think that it's the psychology that's most important. Then, I think the whole concept of virginity is wildly inaccurate for modern culture, especially queer culture. Physically, any tearing or stretching would have been minimal. I guess one co
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on 2004-02-04 07:08 pm (UTC)I think it prolly depends on the person and his/her sensiblities both physical and mental.
I think that Daniel not remembering about him and Jack, because that's fanon, not canon, would equate to it being a 'new' experience. Both on a physical and mental level. Though he does get his memory back.
To re-experience a 'first' time would be rather exciting. But again, that would be up to the person.
Luckily, it's only fanon. So we can write it how we want. I've read virgin, cut, uncut etc and it all has possibilities. As for queer culture, I'm not a big fan of the cross over reality of real gay culture in slash.
I don't pretend to know how gay culture works or is experienced and I'm not saying your are or aren't either. I'm just not sure it's really pertenent to slash.
Or rather, it's only as pertinent as the author chooses it to be.
Daniel is such a wonderful character to write because he walks the line between male and female. Now, put your tomatos away cause you all know what I'm talking about. He's self-actualized to Jack's traditional male role. Doesn't make him less of a man, just a different man to write. He sees and experiences things on a visceral level that Jack doesn't or won't. And that's a good thing.
Daniel's quite at home in his skin. And Jack is too, but in a very different way.
But like I say, I meant the question rhetorically.
No harm, no foul.
'kay?
J
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on 2004-02-04 07:24 pm (UTC)Daniel is such a wonderful character to write because he walks the line between male and female. Now, put your tomatos away cause you all know what I'm talking about.
Though I'm never going to agree with that.
Just a couple more thoughts though (and I swear I'm not trying to pick a fight, just have a conversation about things that intrigue me. Must work on checking impulse to make everything a debate.)
As for queer culture, I'm not a big fan of the cross over reality of real gay culture in slash.
I don't pretend to know how gay culture works or is experienced and I'm not saying your are or aren't either. I'm just not sure it's really pertenent to slash.
I'm gay. And thus that's going to color my experience of reading and writing and meta-ing about slash. I'm also a big believer in canon. And in the thoughtful analysis of canon to write extracanonical pairings in a consistent and believeable way. That's --okay, know what? I'm taking this to my personal LJ. Mind if I quote you?
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on 2004-02-04 07:34 pm (UTC)The irony of your statement about being gay is that I'm not. And 99 percent of the women I write with and for aren't either. And you know what? It shouldn't matter. But somehow, it does. And I like canon too. I love well voiced characters. But it's so UN canon to have homoerotic fic about them. I'm just not willing to draw lines, black v white when the whole darn issue is so freakin grey. That's why I think it's up to the author of the particular fic. And it always will be. Because that's how free speech works. And why we have such a wide diaspora of fiction. And I like it that way.
And by my statement, I didn't mean that gay culture doesn't figure in slash when it obviously does. What I am saying is that in SG slash, it's way way outside canon to cross the queer boundary purely for the military reason. It's a boundary that doesn't exist in other fandoms, well at least not as prominently.
J
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on 2004-02-04 08:13 pm (UTC)Okay. On attempting to put in in my LJ, I realized I had no coherent thoughts, so... yeah.
*shrug* Of the slashers on my flist, a quick estimate says about half are queer females, about half are straight females, and 2 are gaybois. That's probably a symptom of the kinds of people I've sought out and have naturally been drawn to in the large and sprawling community that is LJ J/D slashers.
As for my being gay? It's going to affect how I read and write slash. It has to. Because, in more generic terms, my life experiences are going to affect the way I write and how I filter literature I read. Period. For one thing, I'll tend to write my slashed characters as identifying as gay or bi. Because that's what the queer people I know do. They self-identify. And I don't particularly see Jack as being open-minded enough or Daniel as being un-introspective enough not to label, or at least think about it.
But it's so UN canon to have homoerotic fic about them.
*sigh* For some reason, I always take issue with that statement. J/D is not uncanonical. It's extra-canonical. It's a semantic point, yeah, but it's how I look at it. I think there are few if any pairings that are flat-out precluded by canon. Even ones of which there have been a specific, literal, canonical denial (Daniel/Sam, for example) one can still fic believably.
So yeah. I think one can fic J/D within the confines of canon and have it be reasonably believable. *shrug*
I'm all for free speech and think yes, you can write whatever you want. And I have a right to (and in some cases will) take issue with things that I didn't like and give reasons like, "It didn't cohere with my view of canon." And that's my right as a member of a community where feedback is encouraged.
What I am saying is that in SG slash, it's way way outside canon to cross the queer boundary purely for the military reason. It's a boundary that doesn't exist in other fandoms, well at least not as prominently.
True enough. Another thing that riles me to no end is Jack and Daniel suddenly becoming queer activists and sporting rainbow flags. For one thing, neither one has ever been shown to be particularly politically motivated or activist-y. Are you familiar with any other fanda? Characters who are springing to mind are Hermione (Harry Potter) and Blair Sandburg (The Sentinel). Hermione is canonically an activist for the opressed. I suspect that if she grew up to realize she was gay, there's a strong chance that she would become an active champion for gay rights. Blair grew up on the protest circuit. So he might possibly be part of a protesty, activist movement.
Jack and Daniel? Not so much.
But I do think that queer culture, or at least queer theory, should play a role in the slash subculture because what we are doing is queer. Not so much because it's all about the boylove, but because it's about reinterpreting relationships. To me, that's queer. And I think that queer theory has something to say to the slash community.
So that's why I think such issues as the top/bottom dichotomy, the feminization of the bottom, redefining virginity, coming out, & so forth are relevant to writing and thinking about slash.
I'm also a pretensious intellectual, so there you are.
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on 2004-02-04 08:25 pm (UTC)We hold it different.
As to extra v un, well, it is semantic and I can see how it can show up like that. I think most of what we disagree on is based in our subcultures. I'm not gay and don't experience that on a daily basis. I'm at best bi-curious but married for twenty years. I do have expereinces with gay men and women as friends and have done for years but I'm not active in that culture. And that's not a criticism. It's just a perspective. All my other friends are married, hets with long term jobs and careers the likes of which I'll never see. Don't get me wrong, I love my life. But it's a perspective thing. So by it's very nature, my life provides the emotional material for my writing as does yours. Just material from a diff area.
And Daniel? He may not be in your world, but in mine he's a snag. Sensitive New Age Guy. And that's not a criticism either. It's a perspective.
I don't mind pretentious intellectuals. Really.
And all that stuff about top/bottom, fem and all that.
Again, it's perspective.
And expectation.
I don't read slash for the expected representation of the characters in a real gay sense.
I read it because it's smut and it feels good.
And I like it.
But that's about me.
Which, if you boil it down, is all it can be anyway.
I read it for me and write it for me.
I know others don't do that. But they're not me.
And all of that's okay.
Positive relativism.
Equal polarities.
Umberto Eco.
It all works.
j